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  • #124626
    NSYMCE
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    but I’m just not generally terribly impressed by “bass covers” or especially straight up play-alongs.

    Let me pose a question.

    Are you impressed with orchestra players? Who are sight-reading and playing on the fly, based on what’s presented to them?

    If no, stop reading.

    But if yes.

    Why wouldn’t you be impressed by a bass-cover or play along?

    They don’t have the notes or timing in front of them. They have to memorize the lines, and timing.

    It may seem unimpressive to others, but it is to me.

    Whether it’s an original piece, or a cover, the fact that they put the time in, to make sure they nail it, is impressive.

    This is just my view on the matter.

    If you still disagree, I will not respect you any less, or will I argue with you until you relent. That’s not my style.

    A simple “agree to disagree” will suffice.

    Good points and fair questions. I’m not especially impressed by anyone playing a tune precisely the same way twice, basically. And yep, that would include orchestral players. More accurately, I usually don’t find it all that entertaining a second time around. But there are tons of people who aspire to that that I respect greatly at the same time. Vive la difference!

    Truth is, I don’t learn music by playing along to recordings all that often. I will if I have to, but I’ll only go note for note for melodies, usually. I’ve recorded a lot of jams, but only one CD worth of studio material over 45+ years. That one CD was all my own originals and I’ve never performed any of it verbatim.

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    #124637
    LBS-bass
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    I personally love play alongs for two reasons:

    They make it much easier to learn a song.

     

    This is why I appreciate play alongs.  Good ones.  They aren’t always good.  Mine aren’t. Mine are meant to convey that I can play to my own level, with the hope that this is the level needed to get someone’s attention who might give me a gig.  They aren’t meant to be instructional.  If someone finds them helpful, that’s a bonus.

    But, when I’m learning a hard song and I’m looking for thoughts about how to position my hands or what notes I might be missing, I’ll look for play-alongs to see if I can find nuances I’m missing.  Most of them are wrong, or lacking in some way.

    #124642
    dedpool1052
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    but I’m just not generally terribly impressed by “bass covers” or especially straight up play-alongs.

    Let me pose a question.

    Are you impressed with orchestra players? Who are sight-reading and playing on the fly, based on what’s presented to them?

    If no, stop reading.

    But if yes.

    Why wouldn’t you be impressed by a bass-cover or play along?

    They don’t have the notes or timing in front of them. They have to memorize the lines, and timing.

    It may seem unimpressive to others, but it is to me.

    Whether it’s an original piece, or a cover, the fact that they put the time in, to make sure they nail it, is impressive.

    This is just my view on the matter.

    If you still disagree, I will not respect you any less, or will I argue with you until you relent. That’s not my style.

    A simple “agree to disagree” will suffice.

    Good points and fair questions. I’m not especially impressed by anyone playing a tune precisely the same way twice, basically. And yep, that would include orchestral players. More accurately, I usually don’t find it all that entertaining a second time around. But there are tons of people who aspire to that that I respect greatly at the same time. Vive la difference!

    Truth is, I don’t learn music by playing along to recordings all that often. I will if I have to, but I’ll only go note for note for melodies, usually. I’ve recorded a lot of jams, but only one CD worth of studio material over 45+ years. That one CD was all my own originals and I’ve never performed any of it verbatim.

    I appreciate your insightful and respectful response.

    I was not meaning to cause any flare ups, which did not happen here, but encourage engaging conversation.

    Sitting here like uninvited company.
    Some posts may be unofficially sponsored by Wild Turkey 101.

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    #124643
    dedpool1052
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    Are you impressed with orchestra players? Who are sight-reading and playing on the fly, based on what’s presented to them?

    I like your argument and do enjoy play alongs because, as Boney said, it helps when learning a song. Nothing wrong with that.

    But I feel the need to clarify something here, as quoted above. Orchestra players are rarely sight reading on the fly. They put in tons of practice time to learn the nuances a conductor wishes to convey. They work with their section leaders to coordinate phrasing, dynamics, etc. It is a ton of work and practice. Can they sight read? Absolutely. But that is what their personal practice is for. At group rehearsals they are expected and paid to show up prepared. Even when they do solo recitals it is highly unusual to show up and perform sight reading.

    I appreciate you too, Sir Hef the Coberator.

    I’ll admit, I have no actual experience with orchestral players, only perceived observance.

    Sitting here like uninvited company.
    Some posts may be unofficially sponsored by Wild Turkey 101.

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    #124649
    LBS-bass
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    Are you impressed with orchestra players? Who are sight-reading and playing on the fly, based on what’s presented to them?

    I like your argument and do enjoy play alongs because, as Boney said, it helps when learning a song. Nothing wrong with that.

    But I feel the need to clarify something here, as quoted above. Orchestra players are rarely sight reading on the fly. They put in tons of practice time to learn the nuances a conductor wishes to convey. They work with their section leaders to coordinate phrasing, dynamics, etc. It is a ton of work and practice. Can they sight read? Absolutely. But that is what their personal practice is for. At group rehearsals they are expected and paid to show up prepared. Even when they do solo recitals it is highly unusual to show up and perform sight reading.

    I’ve never been a sight-reader for anything other than vocals.  When I was singing as a soprano in a serious choir that was slated to travel to Europe (yes, that happened) I used to take my sheet music home for serious situations and study it.  I was never really expected to sight read on the fly in those situations, but I was expected to know the music well enough that, one way or another, I could sing it when needed.

    Weekly services were another matter.  The music director would pass out music an hour before the service and we’d go over each piece a couple of times.  You had to know how to read well enough to at least fake it.  I always sat next to someone who could read better than I could so that I could quickly slide if I missed an interval.

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    #124652
    fcleff69
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    I was never really expected to sight read on the fly in those situations, but I was expected to know the music well enough that, one way or another, I could sing it when needed.

    I’ve seen people dismissed from orchestras and ensembles because it was clear they were trying to sight read and were clearly asked not to.

    The Coberator. My other car is a Rocinante.

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    #124653
    fcleff69
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    I’ll admit, I have no actual experience with orchestral players, only perceived observance.

    A good friend of mine is a tenured bassoonist in the Houston Sumphony Orchestra. You’ve got to be good to get those gigs and you have to practice basically 4-8 hours a day. After a while it’s like any band where you learn the repertoire and know the pieces. But you still have to keep your chops up. Because when that new music hits, it ain’t always easy.

    The Coberator. My other car is a Rocinante.

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    #124679
    NSYMCE
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    but I’m just not generally terribly impressed by “bass covers” or especially straight up play-alongs.

    Let me pose a question.

    Are you impressed with orchestra players? Who are sight-reading and playing on the fly, based on what’s presented to them?

    If no, stop reading.

    But if yes.

    Why wouldn’t you be impressed by a bass-cover or play along?

    They don’t have the notes or timing in front of them. They have to memorize the lines, and timing.

    It may seem unimpressive to others, but it is to me.

    Whether it’s an original piece, or a cover, the fact that they put the time in, to make sure they <em style=”font-size: 20.16px !important; line-height: 18px !important;”>nail it, is impressive.

    This is just my view on the matter.

    If you still disagree, I will not respect you any less, or will I argue with you until you relent. That’s not my style.

    A simple “agree to disagree” will suffice.

    Good points and fair questions. I’m not especially impressed by anyone playing a tune precisely the same way twice, basically. And yep, that would include orchestral players. More accurately, I usually don’t find it all that entertaining a second time around. But there are tons of people who aspire to that that I respect greatly at the same time. Vive la difference!

    Truth is, I don’t learn music by playing along to recordings all that often. I will if I have to, but I’ll only go note for note for melodies, usually. I’ve recorded a lot of jams, but only one CD worth of studio material over 45+ years. That one CD was all my own originals and I’ve never performed any of it verbatim.

    I appreciate your insightful and respectful response.

    I was not meaning to cause any flare ups, which did not happen here, but encourage engaging conversation.

    That’s where it’s at. If we all liked the exact same things it would get really boring really fast.

    My primary experience with orchestral players was a roomie in Seattle with a Masters in classical percussion. He mostly played with the community orchestra there, as far as classical, but they did a world premiere once and I got to observe the whole workflow leading up to the concert, plus I got comped into the concert. My roomie was on tympani for most of that performance and he had to memorize a lot of other peoples’ parts to get the cues right. There was no real boilerplate roadmap since it was a premier, but I’ll bet a play along would have been a welcome option. That dude kicked my ass hard at home, and was nice enought to play piano behind my foundering jazz attempts from time to time. It took a long time before I worked up the competency to gig, but for me at least playing with other humans was the only way I was ever going to get there. If you look at jazz as being a conversation then robots don’t really cut it, IMO. Doesn’t mean you couldn’t learn a ton from it, and I do use Band In A Box sometimes, but I don’t necessarily really dig listening to someone else going through that exercise.  😎

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    #124698
    Armyadarkness
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    but I’m just not generally terribly impressed by “bass covers” or especially straight up play-alongs.

    Let me pose a question.

    Are you impressed with orchestra players? Who are sight-reading and playing on the fly, based on what’s presented to them?

    If no, stop reading.

    But if yes.

    Why wouldn’t you be impressed by a bass-cover or play along?

    They don’t have the notes or timing in front of them. They have to memorize the lines, and timing.

    It may seem unimpressive to others, but it is to me.

    Whether it’s an original piece, or a cover, the fact that they put the time in, to make sure they nail it, is impressive.

    This is just my view on the matter.

    If you still disagree, I will not respect you any less, or will I argue with you until you relent. That’s not my style.

    A simple “agree to disagree” will suffice.

    I play Ramones covers

    First, whack the driver, then, off the passengers. I want everyone in the car whacked off.
    ... Al Capone

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    #124699
    Armyadarkness
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    but I’m just not generally terribly impressed by “bass covers” or especially straight up play-alongs.

    Let me pose a question.

    Are you impressed with orchestra players? Who are sight-reading and playing on the fly, based on what’s presented to them?

    If no, stop reading.

    But if yes.

    Why wouldn’t you be impressed by a bass-cover or play along?

    They don’t have the notes or timing in front of them. They have to memorize the lines, and timing.

    It may seem unimpressive to others, but it is to me.

    Whether it’s an original piece, or a cover, the fact that they put the time in, to make sure they nail it, is impressive.

    This is just my view on the matter.

    If you still disagree, I will not respect you any less, or will I argue with you until you relent. That’s not my style.

    A simple “agree to disagree” will suffice.

    That was a very creative angle.

    First, whack the driver, then, off the passengers. I want everyone in the car whacked off.
    ... Al Capone

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    #124700
    Armyadarkness
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    but I’m just not generally terribly impressed by “bass covers” or especially straight up play-alongs.

    Let me pose a question.

    Are you impressed with orchestra players? Who are sight-reading and playing on the fly, based on what’s presented to them?

    If no, stop reading.

    But if yes.

    Why wouldn’t you be impressed by a bass-cover or play along?

    They don’t have the notes or timing in front of them. They have to memorize the lines, and timing.

    It may seem unimpressive to others, but it is to me.

    Whether it’s an original piece, or a cover, the fact that they put the time in, to make sure they nail it, is impressive.

    This is just my view on the matter.

    If you still disagree, I will not respect you any less, or will I argue with you until you relent. That’s not my style.

    A simple “agree to disagree” will suffice.

    Good points and fair questions. I’m not especially impressed by anyone playing a tune precisely the same way twice, basically. And yep, that would include orchestral players. More accurately, I usually don’t find it all that entertaining a second time around. But there are tons of people who aspire to that that I respect greatly at the same time. Vive la difference!

    Truth is, I don’t learn music by playing along to recordings all that often. I will if I have to, but I’ll only go note for note for melodies, usually. I’ve recorded a lot of jams, but only one CD worth of studio material over 45+ years. That one CD was all my own originals and I’ve never performed any of it verbatim.

    It’s very cool to hear all of the different perspectives. I have a very hard time getting into other peoples music (and/ or ideas), but over the years our club has taught me to be much more open minded about things. I’m sure that Leo Fender was just like MC, very interested in the science of it all.

    I would say that most of you seem to be as well.

    My guit player has been taking lessons since I’ve known him and playing guit for over 30 years. We’ve nearly been together for a year and I still havent broken him of the note thing. I’m glad that he understands it and subscribes to it, but I stopped reading music when I was 12. Just last week he was explaing something in notes and I say what I always do… Give me a fret number!

    For what we do, I see no reason to be able to read. Would it make me a better player? Maybe, but it’s not likely. For me and my busy life, I have a hard time scheduling meals and showers, so it’s either wing it and do my best, or don’t do it at all.

    On the inside, I regret that I’ve never made more of it than I did. I miss the kid that I was, and one of the very few achievements that I made in life was learning to read and play music, but those days are gone. I find solace in the thought that even though I wish I could read, there’re probably 10 times as many musicians who can, that wish they could sing and play 45 songs for 300 people.

    Is there ever a perfect place to be?

    First, whack the driver, then, off the passengers. I want everyone in the car whacked off.
    ... Al Capone

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    #124701
    Armyadarkness
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    I was not meaning to cause any flare ups, which did not happen here

    But we should check everyones asshole just in case

    First, whack the driver, then, off the passengers. I want everyone in the car whacked off.
    ... Al Capone

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    #124702
    Armyadarkness
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    I was never really expected to sight read on the fly in those situations, but I was expected to know the music well enough that, one way or another, I could sing it when needed.

    I’ve seen people dismissed from orchestras and ensembles because it was clear they were trying to sight read and were clearly asked not to.

    But you kept at it and look at you now!

    First, whack the driver, then, off the passengers. I want everyone in the car whacked off.
    ... Al Capone

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    #124703
    Armyadarkness
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    A good friend of mine is a tenured bassoonist

    That’s not very polite. Maybe he didn’t get enough oxygen as a baby? Lets not resort to name calling.

    First, whack the driver, then, off the passengers. I want everyone in the car whacked off.
    ... Al Capone

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    #124706
    ituobrey
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    A good friend of mine is a tenured bassoonist

    That’s not very polite. Maybe he didn’t get enough oxygen as a baby? Lets not resort to name calling.

    You missed the most integral phrase in that post, Amy

    A good friend of mine is a tenured bassoonist in the Houston Sumphony Orchestra.

    See, he doesn’t actually have a bassoonist friend; the clue is the name of the ensemble, “SumPhony Orchestra”. C’mon Amy; the “S” stands for sarcastic!

    "Calmly, Powdered Toast Man...ASSESSES THE SITUATION!" -Gary Owens

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    #124748
    RattFink
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    That one CD was all my own originals and I’ve never performed any of it verbatim.

    I hate it when my batteries die in my verbatim mid performance

    G&L Musical Instruments

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    #124749
    Armyadarkness
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    That one CD was all my own originals and I’ve never performed any of it verbatim.

    I hate it when my batteries die in my verbatim mid performance

    Well this settles it. I consider him the Masterverbatim, so his word is good enough for me.

    First, whack the driver, then, off the passengers. I want everyone in the car whacked off.
    ... Al Capone

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    #124765
    bonin in the boneyard
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    #124768
    Still4strings
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    I love fanny.

    Causing trouble in the sctmmc since November 13th, 2018.

    "Punk rock changed our lives." - D. Boon

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    #124769
    Still4strings
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    I love fanny.

    Probably big in the UK.

    Causing trouble in the sctmmc since November 13th, 2018.

    "Punk rock changed our lives." - D. Boon

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